In Conversation: Witch Prophet
In early October, Greg interviewed Witch Prophet - the Toronto based, Ethiopian/Eritrean singer-songwriter whose 2020 album DNA Activation was short-listed for the 2020 Polaris Music Prize. On DNA Activation, Witch Prophet delivers a hypnotizing mix of Ethiopan-jazz, hip-hop and RnB; cementing herself as a creative force capable of weaving multiple genres and influences together in an effortless manner. Read Greg’s Pick of the Week review of DNA Activation from this past April here.
In the powerful 90 minute conversation transcribed below, Witch Prophet digs deep into her inspiration for the exceptional DNA Activation and provides details about her creative process with producer & partner Sun Sun. In this expansive interview, she also speaks about upcoming musical plans, touches on lessons learned over the past few years, shares how she brings magic into her own life and addresses the state of the music industry in Canada.
Enjoy!
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Greg: What do you prefer to go by? Ayo, Etmet, Leilani?
Witch Prophet: Leilani, I usually tell people to just call me Leilani. Ayo.. it’s interesting.. Because Ayo is a known Nigerian name, or West African name. A lot of people are like “Oh your name is Ayo.” But no, that’s just a nickname. When I was in New York a friend of mine saw me down the street, and was like: “Ay yo, Ay yo, Lelani!” - he was just saying like Yo, Lelaini but it just kind of tagged on to me, so people are like your name is Ayo? And so it’s funny, cuz like no... it's just from Hey Lelani.. Over here.. You know.. But now it’s just like, now I'm just so used to it, I’m like whatever it doesn’t matter. But ya, it’s Lelaini.
G: Alright, let’s dig into DNA Activation. The record flows so nicely, it is very cohesive. When you started creating this album did you have the concept in mind already or did it come together as the songs were being written?
WP: I actually thought of the concept in 2014 - I was like... I want to do this album called DNA Activation where I’m talking about my family and it’s connected to my Ethiopian and Eritrean roots. And I wrote a grant for it and didn’t get funding and then I went into this spiral of: “this is a bad idea...” like you know, that stupidness of: if you don’t get funding it’s not real...which is not true at all. Luckily I had Sun Sun, my wife, at the time we were just dating, tell me like, you know, let’s just focus and keep going and do something else. And that’s when we started focusing on our other project Above Top Secret - which we did get a grant for.. So I was like “Alright, I’ll go in this direction” And then also working on my debut album which was The Golden Octave. But it was something that was definitely in the works beforehand it just wasn’t exactly clear on where I wanted to go with it until last year, or two years ago.
G: So you mentioned you weren’t clear until a year ago - so what was the changing point that helped you figure that out. Or was it a series of things?
WP: Well I just started researching more - in terms of my family tree and talking with my mom more about my history and about where we come from. And then doing a lot of research on Ethiopian music and Eritrean music, and of course the historical importance of civil war that was happening there and continues to happen and how that affects music and things like that... And then also going into like, the.. there’s sort of two columns of music within Ethiopian and Eritrean culture - there’s popular music and secular music or church music. And so it was researching the both of those at the same time and really trying to figure out where I wanted to go, and then understanding myself and my history and my family as being one where my grandfather was the pastor of our church, and he was the leader in the Eritrean community. And like, you know, I grew up in the church - like for real, every Sunday was at church. And then hitting adolescence and sort of veering away from that - but really trying to figure out what I wanted to talk about and who I was in the process and then being like: Ok, I feel more clear and more confident about my story than with just the original idea of “Oh, I want to tell a story about my ancestry”. It was actual work for me to unlearn a lot of the things I had thought growing up, and just connect with things that I didn’t even know.
G: That’s powerful. So you have songs named after certain family members, did you hold off on sharing those songs until the whole record was done, or would you share some with certain people? What was the reaction from your family members when they heard the album?
WP: [laughs] I didn’t share anything until the end, the only song that was shared was Elsabet, and that’s the song for my mom. And that was because it was the first single that we had released sort of a year in advance of even the album dropping, just to see if anybody... or any press would bite or pay attention. Ya so that was the only, my mom’s track, was the only one we had released and then everything else, just kind of worked on it myself... ourselves - like myself and Sun Sun in our space and at Lalibela Studios. And ya we just worked on it and when it was done, we were in the car and I played it for my son and I didn’t say anything and I was just silent and playing it. And he’s like: “wait a second, is this you?!” and I was like, “Yeeaa it is!!”, and he’s like, “Wow I love it!” And so everybody was really excited when they heard the final copy. They did hear the beats whenever they’d come over for lunch or something like that - they would hear the instrumentals but never my vocals or my lyrics or what the songs were about.
G: That’s cool. What was the easiest song to record? Was there one that came to you super easily writing wise, or one that the recording process was really fast? Anything that was simple?
WP: I think... [laughs]... which is crazy because it’s not the easiest one, but it was the fastest one that came to me was the song about my dad that’s called Ghideon. That song came the fastest to me, it was a freestyle. It wasn’t meant to be on the album. But it was definitely not easy because I don’t really talk to my father and we have sort of [breathes deeply] a complicated relationship. Let’s call it a complicated relationship.. you know.. So it was a release of emotions that I didn’t think I would share publicly... you know, like, he’s not dead, he’s alive, he can definitely hear the song. You know, I’m still in contact with his side of the family, they’ll hear it. I’m sure they have... So it wasn’t an easy song, but it was the one that came out without any sort of any thought, it just came out. Sun was playing... we had finished the album and she was like: “are you going to write a song about your dad?” and I was like: “no I don’t think I’m gonna add that into... ahh it’s too.. I dunno what to say.” And then she was playing a beat and the mic was on, and we just kind of freestyled and then ya, at the end of it she was in tears and I was choked up, and she’s like: “man, you can’t not do that, I mean do what you want..” Ya this could have been just a release for me and her, but I think it’s important to share because not everybody has great relationships with their family, or with their fathers in particular. And some people have fantastic relationships and some people don’t, but this was a way for me to show.... and it wasn’t always like that, you know...it wasn’t always like that growing up. But this is what it is now as adults, and so I thought it was important to share a part of an album that is about family that not all family members are perfect and not all relationships are great but they are all lessons and they all teach you and help you grow into the person you are. So I thought it was important. So that was probably the quickest [laughs] track, it came out in two minutes.. It was like.. Blahhh! I was like.. Ahh I guess I should put it out.
G: So once you had that conversation with Sun, was there any hesitation..even after maybe when you were doing the tracklist, were you still on the fence about it? Or were you like, no it’s powerful.. It’s going on.
WP: Oh ya, oh ya, there was still.. Where on this album is it gonna be? You know... like, oh it was a lot, like where is it gonna be and also even just talking about it with press, because that’s the most... that’s the one people are like: “Oooh”.. You know, I’m swearing in it, and everything else doesn’t really have any swear words. I’m like... it’s hard to talk about it. I double think myself after interviews all the time. All the time! I share it and then I’ll talk about and then I’m like: “it’s cool.” Then I’ll be like: “Oh my god, what if my mom sees that, oh my god what if my aunts and uncles read that or other people in the Ethiopian or Eritrean community read that and they know my family and what are they going to think and this judgment..” But then I have to remind myself that that fear and that fear of judgment is not mine.. It’s not mine to take on. Even if our community is gossipy or whatever [laughs]... but like.. Everybody is gossipy but they don’t gossip about their own family issues and everybody has their own family issues so why not share that like.. Hey man, this is not a secret. And also it’s okay, it’s empowering to talk about what is happening, you can’t keep everything inside cuz that’s not healthy...and so... So I still am like: “AHHH!!” It’s my own therapy to go through and be like, oh it’s so cool let’s talk about this.. Then I go through it in my mind and then I’m like...it’s okay, it’s okay..
G: Ya definitely. That song, and the whole album is general is so relatable because you are sharing truth. It’s great, thank you for addressing that more. So that kind of speaks to my next question - it was just the flip: what song was the most difficult? So that one was emotionally difficult, but was there another one that was difficult to get down - maybe technically, or emotionally too?
WP: Umm.. I think the one that was probably difficult to get down was the song about my son...Or for my son Darshan because I really wanted to make it a special song that he could listen to and always hear my love for him, whenever... Like until he is like 80 years old and he can play that song, and be like, “that’s my song”. I really put a lot of pressure on myself and my writing to be like... I want to be able to leave a beautiful song where... You know, obviously I’m overly dramatic and I’m like: “if I were to die tomorrow and he listened to this song, would he be like...ahhh” [exhales, laughs].. That’s like what I was trying to feel into. I want this song to be like, this is my mom’s song about me... and really connecting about who he is and what he has given to my life, and not just about him as a person, but how he has helped me become such a better person. And he really has.. He really, really has. I was such a lost and completely unbalanced... I got pregnant when I was 18, so like, you know.. I was all over the place, really selfish, I wasn’t present in the moment when I was talking to people or dealing with things. I was completely all over the place. And young, really young! And I got pregnant and I gave birth to him and it completely changed my life for the better and I’m so grateful for it. So that was the song that I really wanted to make sure that I was able to vocalize that, or give that feeling of like, you know: “I really love you and I’m so thankful” I think that was the one that was really hard for me to separate myself as an artist and also the mom and all those things of like - I just want to make sure.. You know.. Like this is my baby, and also the music is my baby, but also Darshan is my baby and so I gotta make sure that it is perfect. Ya so it was probably the hardest one, but I love it so much and I’m grateful that I was able to work it out.
G: So a little more bit about your creative process - the songs are personal. So do you find when you are writing lyrics, are you writing to process an emotion or are you writing after you have processed that emotion?
WP: It’s both, it’s definitely both. When it comes to freestyles, I feel like anger is definitely the strongest emotion I have that allows me to say what I need to say as quickly as possible. Ya... [laughs] my best freestyles are when I’m angry and those lyrics really come out. Um.. but I don’t really like using anger too much when it comes to my music, but you know, all emotions are valid and it’s good to work through them. But my writing process really depends on what I’m feeling, how the vibe of the beat is, and like, usually Sun Sun makes the beat... like with this album we both sat down together and I told her the sounds that I wanted to hear within the tracks. She went through all the samples and all the beats and created the sound, and I’d be like: “I like that, add a trumpet, find a trumpet.. You know.. Something” and we’d work on it together and then I’d be ok and then I’d start writing and then she’d add some more effects or things once I decided I liked the base of the beat. So it was really a joint effort in terms of vibing off of each other and the ability to get a creative spark. I don’t think I would have been able to do that if we weren’t really focused on creating everything together. Like versus The Golden Octave LP which I think had 5 or 6 different producers that I worked with on that - it was sort of just like: give me a beat, I’ll write to it instead of: here’s this theme I want to work on and I want to work with one person from beginning to end to really figure out what I like and where we want to go with it. And then of course with the writing of this album, I really thought about.. Ok I’m going to name it after people in my family, like my two pairs of grandparents, my parents, my sister, my son and then myself. Also in terms of their names for the songwriting.. Like Darshan his name... um... sorry I smoked a spliff and now I’m like, what’s that word I’m looking for.... [laughs] Oh ya, so the definition of his name... that’s the word, definition... [laughs] The definition of Darshan means: one with vision or one who can see the vision of God. And then the definition of Roman is pomegranate. The definition of Makda is the Queen of Sheba. So there were lots of things where I was connecting the definition of people’s names to the lyrics of the songs and then trying to find a myth or a bible story that’s connected somehow and then also using my experiences with these family members and what I’ve grown up to believe them to be like. So with the song Ghideon - the name is defined as “feller”.. And when I looked it up I was like, what the fuck does feller mean? And it was like, one who cuts down trees. And I was like: oh shit, one who cuts down trees, one who cuts down wood - that makes perfect sense if I’m talking about my family tree and I’m saying you cut down...like you did do that, you cut it down, you cut yourself down. It’s the perfect name. It just worked so I was like: Oh shit, like, this is a good theme and a process in terms of songwriting and getting the real value of the word and really going deeper than just like you know “oh this song is called this and that’s it”. It’s like no - it’s all connected and there’s a reason why those things are called that.
G: Wow, oh I’m getting chills listening to you describe it, so cool, so powerful. I’m gonna ask more about your process with Sun Sun. You spoke to how DNA Activation was very collaborative, but when you’re working on new songs...will she just give you tracks and you write to them? Or...
WP: No I steal them! [laughs] She doesn’t give me anything, I steal them. She just left the room now.. Our desks, I dunno if you can see [she moves the camera to show Sun Sun’s work station] her desk is behind me so we sit back to back to each other so I can hear her when she’s making beats and I’ll just turn around and be like: “What’s that, I like that, I want that, that’s mine, don’t give that to anybody” and then we’ll work on it. Like recently, just last night, we were playing an afrobeat that she’s been working on. And I’m was like, “man I fucking love this, it feels so good, I wanna dance to it.” And she’s like: “You like it?” And I was like, “Ya it’s my beat now, just so you know.” [laughs] She was playing the beat for like an hour and I was like, I can’t wait to write to this.. I just needed to feel the vibe. But with that track, with the afrobeat track, it wasn’t lyrics ... well it was, I came up with the hook first, but it wasn’t lyrics I was thinking of first.. It was “who else can I get on this track?” And I’m like man.. It’d be cool to get Zaki [Ibrahim] on this track, and there were just different people that I was thinking that it'd be cool to do this. That’s usually what happens when working with Sun Sun is that she’ll be creating and I’ll just be eavesdropping and then being like - I want that, or let’s work on that. Or when it comes to Above Top Secret we’ll sit and we know that we want a specific sound or a specific theme for this new album that we’re working on and we’ll do that. She’s completely, in terms of production, she can make anything... so it’s weird to be like she’s a “this type of producer” - and no - she’s just incredibly amazing and superduper talented. I can be like - make me afrobeat and she can, or make me a grunge track and she can - you know, so it’s really about just vibing off each other. But she sits and goes through the tedious tasks of listening to “ting”, “bang”, “bum de bum”. And like going through lists - and I’m like oooh my god this is driving me insane, like I can’t do that in terms of the production. But I can be in the other room and if I hear a sound I like, I’ll yell and be like “that one!” That’s it - that’s my level of production. I can’t, I just can't, it gives me a headache but she is so good at it. Like, thank God because I dunno, I really don't know what I’d do without her. She’s incredibly supportive and I mean, obviously she records all my stuff - or mixes all my music. And ya I’m just so grateful.
G: Ya it’s so cool, you can just constantly be vibing and running.. jumping off your inspiration instead of trying to get inspired in a different studio. So when you write, do you write journals, poems - where do you draw your lyrics out of? You did mention freestyling so do you prefer to freestyle or have a draft of lyrics and throw them on a beat?
WP: It depends on what kind of track I’m working on. Most of the time the hook will be a freestyle. That just comes from listening to the beat on repeat - almost all my hooks are freestyles and then I’ll sit down and actually write after I have that hook solidified. Which is just a ton of repetition.. of repeating the hook over and over and over again until I find the next word or something that happens to just come to me. Or it’ll be ideas or lyrics from songs that I have never released before or recorded but didn’t like and decided not to use.. Or something like that.. I’d be like oh ya I wrote that song when I was 17 years old and I really like that one sentence from it but not the whole song and I’m gonna take it from that. Which I’ve learned, because before I’d be like... Oh that’s such an old song, I don’t wanna use that.. Then I was like, who the hell is it old to? It’s just old to me, nobody else knows this music. Nobody knows what I’m writing in my journal, like nobody knows this stuff, it’s just old to me. And there’s ways to revive it and make it new and it’s to take little parts here and there and grow upon them and get inspired by them. So that’s usually how I write.
G: I like that. So how did you come to work with Karen Ng on the saxophone and Brandon Valdivia on the flute? Their features on the album are so great. Have you known them for a while or did you seek them out specifically for their contributions?
WP: With Karen, I think I tweeted - I’m looking for a saxophone player. And I posted it on Facebook in some music group and almost every single person said Karen. I was like OK! Then I hit her up and was like, hey do you want to do this? And she was like: ya! She was so chill. She came over - it was like the quickest recording session ever. She came over to our farm in Caledon and recorded for about an hour and a half, maybe two hours. A whole bunch of different riffs. Just like a whole bunch of different things that Sun could chop up and use later on. But just completely freestyled because I didn’t send her anything. I was just like, just come here and just vibe, and whatever, just vibe. And she’s like “ok!” And she freestyled and we’re both like... Oh my god... like what the fuck. She’s amazing.. Like holy.. It really upped, like even Sun’s production, like I think Karen totally took it to a whole new level. Just like oh my gosh, she totally upped this production so much, it sounds so great, I’m so thankful. She was so easy to work with and so kind and incredibly talented. Brandon is a really good friend of ours, we’ve known him for about five years. He’s also the drummer in our band Above Top Secret so we’ve known him through that. And obviously we’re good friends with Lido [Pimienta], and so we met him through Lido and she was the one who forced him into our band actually cuz before we didn’t have a drummer. And she was like: “oh, you guys need a drummer, listen.. This is my boyfriend and he’s going to now be your drummer.” And we’re like: “alright... okay! Sounds good” [laughs] and it worked out because he’s fucking fantasically talented as well. Ya and I just happened to hit him up, being like, you know - would you play some flute? And he sent me some stems that he did at his house and it worked great. It was crazy because he was like, “I’m so sorry, I had the flu and I couldn’t breathe that well... I hope it’s good” And I was like “you’re crazy, this sounds great - it sounds great. thank you” Ya so they’re both fantastic and super incredibly talented and not with just the instruments that they’re on the album playing. They know how to play so many different instruments that it’s just awe inspiring. And definitely gonna get both of them, along with a list of other people that I’ve been collecting, to work on the next few albums as well.
G: With this record, were there other tracks you recorded that are now in the vault that didn’t go on this record or was it like: these are the songs that came, were recorded and went on the album?
WP: No, there were other beats that we completely just trashed that we were like, no these aren’t it. The original beats.. there were about 6 beats that I had that we were just like, nope it’s not the sound at all.. Um, it was sort of like the first round of where I thought I wanted to go with it. And then after all the research and after speaking with my mom and after listening to all the different styles of music. And then also incorporating hip-hop, r&b, soul - which is what I love - into it. It was like, ya no these beats are great beats but they’re not the direction that I wanted to go. They might be released as something else, but for now, they were not DNA Activation [laughs]. But ya - they are literally called DNA 1, DNA 2, DNA 3... so I went through them and I was like, nah, no, they aren’t DNA, but they were something forsure.
G: You did address some meaningful songs, but is there another song you want to speak to that means a lot to you or is there one that really stands out as the most meaningful.. The one that gives you the best feeling when you go back to listen to it?
WP: Ya, I guess like both.. Like.. well all the songs I really love. But I guess Tesfay because I’m actually releasing a music video for it on the 13th of October. So Tesfay, which Karen’s on as well. That one is just complete chopped up samples of Karen - like little itty bits of her playing and we sort of just moved them around, so she didn’t play that whole thing but it sounds so smooth because she is so incredible that I’m like - nobody would know. Ah I love her playing so much. But I think Tesfay is probably one of my favourite songs because it is such a braggadocio track - it’s talking about being your best and looking your best and feeling your best. And about not having fear and knowing that everything that is meant for you will come to you because the moment is now and the moment is for you. And that song I wrote about my mom’s father who, my memory of him is always being in a three piece suit. Like literally always, my entire life, I had never seen this man in anything comfortable ever... Like EVER. Always head to toe, three piece suit, didn’t matter if it was 40 degrees outside, doesn’t matter, like looking fly all the time. So this song was about him, and the video is so beautiful and I’m so excited to show people. And it features two dancers from Hamilton.... Well not Hamilton the play, like Hamilton, Ontario. [laughs].. You know... so two dancers from Hamilton...
G: Ya you know, whatever.. Hamilton [laughs]
WP: Ya like whatever.. [laughs]... but ya there are a bunch of little girls who are dressed like me. It’s just so sweet. They got their hair done like me. It’s so sweet. It’s a beautiful video. And I’m really excited to release it.
G: One other song I wanted to talk about was Etmet. I love the lyrics on that song: “lost myself trying to be someone else... pressure’s trying to take me out. I’m on my knees, feeding my inner doubts, I need peace, I need to find my way back”. It’s super relatable. I wanted to dig more into that line with you. How did you come to find yourself more musically and personally? Was it through the research you referred to earlier or was there anything that inspired that song specifically?
WP: Ya I think that song.. It was about the research within my family and my ancestry. But it was also about my pushing away from certain friend groups, or scenes that were toxic for me. Regardless of if they didn’t start out that way... cuz not everything starts out as a bad scenario but it might turn into it. Which it did for me with a few friends that I had - where I was losing myself. Where I was doing things and acting in a way that I’m not proud of, and also that I feel like, I only did because I was trying to keep everybody happy and not... you know.. Like where you always want people to like you so you might do things that are not good for you because you’re trying to make other people like you and not like, seem troublesome or seem, like you know, not chill or cool or whatever if you speak up, or something. You know what I mean? So that was something, between 2014 and 2018 was a hard four years, health wise between myself and Sun Sun, and losing a lot of our friends and just kinda like, stepping away from a lot of toxic relationships and being like - I really gotta figure out what’s good for me. And who am I anyways to figure out what’s good for me and who I am? And even like my whole music career - a lot of people don’t know me as my birth name, they know me as Leilani or Witch Prophet or Ayo and I totally don’t mind that at all. And I still am not one to be like, “call me by my birth name.” Because I’m like - I don’t know you, don’t do that. Names are serious things so I’m just like... I dunno.. Maybe not, just call me the name I’ve given you. But it was still important for me to be like, no, don’t forget who you are just because you’ve taken on this Leilani personality or whatever.. Don’t forget where that name comes from and the importance of it and ya... And just in terms of who I am, as a queer woman and an African woman and being vocal about it and not being scared to talk about those things - because it is taboo in the African community to be out and loud and proud about it - cuz I definitely am. I go out of my way, even in performances to say like “I just wanted to say I’m so gay!” with like echo effects and reverb. And I can see some people are like.. “Ahh! Gay!” [laughs] And I’m all [makes big movements with arms and head]...But it’s not scary, it’s okay. I do those things to push the envelope but also to show that like, humour and those sorts of vibes allow people to relax and to see that it’s not something scary or not something evil or whatever, or demonic or where you’re going to go to hell or wherever. And so I needed to step into myself and be like, no I need to be myself and I need to be honest about who I am and what I stand for. And I almost lost myself in the moment of being in the cool crowd, or like you know, the cliques, or the scenes. And not recognizing that it wasn’t healthy. And taking back, and being like - hey I love to help other people and I love to uplift community, but you cannot do those sorts of things if you are not taking care of yourself first, and so I was like I gotta take care of myself first. So that’s the basis of that song. And of course, I have my mom who’s the feature on it - speaking in Amharic, just saying - you know who you are, you’re my daughter, there is no need to fear. No matter, even if you don’t know who you are, you’re always my daughter so that’s who you are.
G: That’s amazing. So what did you find once you started to return to that, to who you are. What did you find with your interactions with fans or with other artists and opportunities? Did things come to you more easily or was it... I feel like that relatability would open a lot of doors while maybe closing some doors too... so could you maybe speak more to that?
WP: I found it was a definite connection - it allowed more in terms of Ethiopian and Eritrean queer fanbase to reach out to me more, to see that I was also connecting my heritage to myself and to my family and to my queerness and everything and being out. Like there’s no hiding - like these are my family’s real names, you can easily put two names together and figure out like, Elsa Tesfay, that’s my mom’s first name and my mom’s last name. You can put it together and find out who I am and what my family is and who they are. So you know.. It’s a way to not hide. It was very much, like this is definitely who I am - this is my family and I’m proud of it and I’m proud of who I am. And I’ve seen the change in terms of the people who hit me up and say that they really look up to me, or they’re happy to see that there is a Habesha - which just means a specific type of Ethiopian or Eritrean, which I am - they are happy to see Habesha people, queer Habesha people living their life and happy and have their family approve. So like a lot of people have seen my wedding pictures or my wedding video to Sun on my Instagram and they write to me and are just like, so happy that we’re doing this thing. And the album has really brought a lot more of them out. Not out into the open [laughs] but atleast out into my DMs. So it’s nice, ya I’ve also had a lot of people hit me up that feel a really strong connection to the song about my father, and also feel that they also have those feelings. So it’s really interesting to see that this thing, this vulnerability that I was really scared to share is actually the thing that is connecting me with everybody else. Any sadness or hope or anger or excitement, or just, you know, the sharing of my true self is what people have connected into. Whereas all my other music I was trying to make music that I thought people would like - like, oh I think people would like to dance to this, or I think people who like to talk about this, instead of talking about what I want to talk about. Which is a way to... it’s a cheap way of therapy for me to be like, hey everybody, listen to my issues. [laughs] Not that cheap cuz studio time is not cheap, there’s a lot of admin to do this - but it’s still a nice way, it’s an artistic way to go through.. sorry my dog just ran in... [brings dog up to the camera to say hi]... but ya, so it’s great to be able to know that being vulnerable and showing my fear or showing my true emotions isn’t something that I’m penalized for when in fact it is something that I’m celebrated about - so it’s great.
G: Yes it’s amazing. So now that you are feeling more of that freedom to be yourself, I noticed on Twitter you’re mentioning new music and you said you’re working on new stuff now. So can you give any hints of what we can expect from upcoming projects from you? Maybe thematically, musically...
WP: Ya so Sun Sun and I are working on a sort of soul-motown EP. I’m also working, right now I’m just in talks, but a good friend of mine, Denz from The OBGMs, they’re a punk-rock group from Toronto. They’re fuckin fantastic - but I’ve been talking to Denz about working on a folk album. So we’ve been talking about getting together to work on that cuz it’s like one of my dreams to release a folk album, for sure. And for it to be a folk album, and no way for people to be like - this is r&b. It’s like no, it is folk. Like it’s not r&b, it’s not soul, it’s folk. And ya so hopefully people will be able to hear that. Ya, but those two are the things right now. And then of course Sun Sun is working on a record that we will be releasing through Heart Lake Records where we will be hitting up different women and non-binary, gender non-conforming artists to work with her on a compilation release.
G: Whoa, I am so excited to hear where you go with those records. Very cool. So back to the album a bit more. It was long-listed and short-listed for the Polaris Prize, which is so amazing. Congratulations!
WP: Thanks!
G: How did it feel when you initially saw the long-list. Were you thinking that you maybe had an opportunity at that or was it a complete shock to you?
WP: Well the way that it works, when you’re even considered for the long-list, they send you an email being like: “hey, somebody has nominated that we listen to you, so just to let you know, everybody is listening” right? But then they don’t tell you anything else until the long-list comes out, so like that’s it. So I was like Oh my god. So when I got that email I didn’t tell anybody anything, I didn’t post anything cuz I was like I am not... cuz that actually happened for The Golden Octave as well. I got that initial email like hey.. Somebody suggested that this should be... but then nothing came of it so I was like: ahhhh I was so sad about that. So then when I got that email about DNA Activation I was like: I’m not saying shit, I’m not posting nothing.. I was like...I don’t care.. [laughs] Even though I totally do. And then, ya so we were driving, Sun and I were driving and we were listening and everytime they said somebody else’s name I was getting sadder and sadder because I was like - they’re not going to say my name and I shouldn’t be listening to this because it's stressful... Like you know, I don’t want to be rejected, like what the hell... like it’s exciting but also horrible at the same time. And as soon as I had decided: that’s it, they’re not going to name me... I think I was like number 38 or something ... I was like, that’s it, they’re not going to say my name. Then they said it. We both burst into tears and had to pull the car over because we were both shaking and freaking the fuck out. Like we can’t believe this. And then for the short-list again we were in our house and just listening to the radio and being like... Okay, let’s see... and every person I was like, Okay.. Okay.. and then when it happened, we just.. again, into tears cuz we’re like we can’t believe this is happening, this is so crazy. Because I had tweeted about it last year... I had tweeted “I’m Going to Be on the Polaris List” [laughs] before I had even released the album.. I was like, I’m going to be on it... watch. Then I got paranoid and I deleted it because I had tagged Polaris. You know.. I was like Oh My God, delete it, like what are you doing...[laughs] Sometimes if I haven’t smoked a spliff I’ll be like “rarrararblahlblahblah” on twitter and then I’ll smoke and go back and be like whoa...[laughs] Ya so that’s what happened, and then when I got announced, I was like, holy shit. damnit, now I can’t bring up that tweet to be like, I told you! But I had tweeted that being like, I can’t find the tweet that says I was going to be on it, but just know that I did tweet that. Then Polaris tweeted me being like... we saw it so we know.. So I was like shit! They saw it, they saw me delete it, they saw the whole interaction happening. Like oh my god, I was so embarrassed but ya they thought it was funny. But ya it’s really such a great fucking honour, like holy... the amount of amazing albums, like super fantastic albums on that list. It’s like really incredible, what an honour to even be on the same list as everybody else. Every album is great.
G: Ahh so amazing. You’re my pick [even though I don’t vote], I love the record. To be short-listed must be so amazing and open up a lot of doors too. Congratulations again, that’s very exciting. I saw that Polaris is doing some short films and I saw you tweet that you co-directed, produced, wrote, styled one. Can you give any details about that?
WP: Instead of doing a gala because of covid, they gave everybody either a chance to work with a filmmaker or to do it on your own, and then a budget to do a short film based on the album or a song from the album, or something like that. And so that’s what my film is about, it’s based on my album, it’s called DNA Activation. It’s an afro-futuristic sci-fi short film. That’s as much as I can give away. It’s directed by myself and the homie FROCASSO, he’s done a lot of my videos in the past and Above Top Secret videos. Ya so they gave us funding, and I was like I have an idea, we’re going to do this and I really have never done anything like that in my entire life. It was a lot of work to be like: I’m the producer of this film. It’s like oh my god, why did I say I was going to do this? Then I was like Ooh.. because I’m controlling, I can’t give away all of that... I just can’t, I need to know what is happening and I also want to be involved, and I also have ideas so I want these ideas used. But it’s really exciting and I hope everybody likes it, and I’m really excited to see everybody else’s films. Ya it was a lot of work but it was worth it. And they had us on such a tight deadline... like one week and it’s like show us your ideas or your storyboard, then the next week is the rough of the film, then the next week is the final edit so it was really about maybe four or five weeks in total that they gave us to do everything. And so it was like, wow, really, incredibly stressful but now I really respect and honour anybody in the film industry because holy shit, that’s not easy at all. At all. And umm... Ya I definitely probably wouldn’t do it again in terms of taking everything on myself, but in terms of the experience at least I know how it works and next time around I know what to look for to make sure that if I do hire somebody, that they have all the things that at least I was doing on my own.
G: I like when you mentioned that prophetic tweet about the Polaris Prize because I wanted to get into a little conversation about magic, your name. I really believe in the power of manifestation and that our words can be like casting spells. So how do you bring magic into your daily life, your music, your art? Do you want to address any of that?
WP: Yes I do a lot of... well my magic is mostly right before I fall asleep. I do a lot of dreaming. I do a lot of lucid dreaming and dream journaling. But a lot of my songs are repetitive because I believe that words are spells, and so it’s a way to sort of get into the subconscious or the psyche in order to actually penetrate whatever, like whatever you need. So repetition with my lyrics is something that I do in a way to sort of cause a spell-bound reaction. In terms of my everyday life I mean... I dunno if you can see it [moves camera to show me around the room]. I didn’t do it because I was terrified about the Polaris and I was like, maybe I shouldn’t make an altar for myself because what the hell, who do I think I am? Then I woke up and I saw Sun Sun did it and I was like ahhh I love you so much. So that’s our little altar, it has my CD, an Egyptian cat, and some crystals and an Ethiopian candle and an Ethiopian cross. And we had a giant tomato, a heirloom tomato, that we grew in our backyard. It was green and it’s slowly been turning red over the course of the past couple of weeks. It’s been cool to see. We have a lot of different altars throughout the house, but that’s the first time that we have done something specifically to be like, hey let’s put energy into this specific thing and see what happens.... So we’ll see... We’ll see what happens [laughs] Ya, when it comes to manifestation or when I’m trying to have something happen for me, it’s a lot of praying before I sleep. Which a lot of people don’t think I do because of the name Witch, so there’s like: “Oh, you don’t pray?” Well I don’t necessarily pray to Jesus Christ.. Like I’m not like, “Dear Jesus...” like that’s not what I’m doing, but I still am speaking to the universe, or to animal spirits, or angels - cuz I believe in angels - and guides and things like that. So I do pray a lot and that’s usually what makes me fall asleep. I’ll pray while I’m lying in bed and then I fall asleep. And then I also do a lot of visualization tactics in the shower because water is a really good conduit for magic. So the best is to be in the shower where you are as vulnerable as possible and cleaning away any negative energy and really focusing on what you want to be absorbing into your aura or into your body, or your universe by using the water.
G: Cool, thank you for sharing that. I love following you on Twitter. Kind of going back to what you were saying earlier about feeling more comfortable expressing yourself and not limiting yourself and being open. You share a lot of insights for artists - I think every artist should be following you, you drop a lot of wisdom! So what was the best advice you’ve received from others in the industry that has really helped you in your career?
WP: I think the best advice I’ve received is that I can do everything myself but it’s a lot easier.. Maybe not easier, but it’s better to include other people in your vision. And instead of doing something by myself that maybe I have the capacity, like 60% capacity to do, sometimes it’s better to hire somebody who actually has 100% capacity to do it and to pay. Sometimes it’s better to just pay. And it took me a long time to learn that, to be like...you have to value other people’s talents and time. Like I can do press releases, but I just hired a PR agent now... Like I can do press releases but sometimes it’s better to just..you know... It only took me a certain point, I wasn’t getting past a section of like... I wasn’t hitting the American market of where I wanted to be. I was like, this is frustrating, how do I get past this point? It’s like.. Okay, now is the time to recognize that I cannot do this anymore by myself, I have to pay somebody and I have to include other people in my vision and in my project to make this work. So I think that was probably the best advice I got, which was that sometimes it’s better to pay for somebody to help you to do something than to do it yourself and not get the um... I forget the word right now... but to not get what you want in exchange. So, like it’s better for me to pay for a PR agent and hope to God because I did pay, hope to God that it gets some things that I personally can’t do myself that I have been doing for the past however many years. We’ll see... I’m still iffy about the PR agent, but we’ll see, we’ll see how far this video [Tesfay music video] goes. I can’t do anything until like, I dunno.. But ya that’s probably one of the best pieces of advice. And also to look at every single granting or funding opportunity within your own personal province - your city, your province - as well as the whole of Canada. And writing down and figuring out all the deadline dates before grants are due. And making sure that your grant is written and finished at least one month before the deadline date. Because a lot of the times I was sitting on assessment committees and I’ve realized that I can tell when somebody has written a grant within a week... And I’ve done that myself where I’m like, ahhh it’s cool they’re not going to tell. And no... I can tell, and after reading hundreds of grants you can tell which ones have actually taken the time to write and which ones were rushed and sort of like, Oh there’s one next week, I’m just going to do it really quickly. And those aren’t the ones that get funding. And so to recognize that in order to get funding... cuz you’re asking people to give you money... is to actually take the time to do the work and to prove why you should get that money. Like think about it as yourself, like would you give somebody ten thousand dollars who just showed up at your door like, hey! Heard you were giving away ten thousand dollars... Or would you give it somebody who has proven to you that they have worked hard, and are like, here is my package proposal of why you should give me ten thousand dollars, right? So I think that’s probably the best advice I can give - like really know what you are doing in terms of the granting world because there is lots of funding that is just sitting there. And if you don’t get a grant to write the music officer, or whoever is in charge of the granting and ask why. Just be like, can I have feedback? Because a lot of people don’t do that... Ya I didn’t know you could do that for the longest time. I had no idea that you could call them and be like, “But why didn’t I get it?” And then they will give you a list of what the assessment committee thought and then you can change your grant to fit what they thought or what they didn’t like and then apply again, and more than likely you will get the grant, right. That’s an issue that a lot of people don’t know. After working with the TAC and Ontario Arts Council and a couple different granting committees.. I was like wow.. a lot of artists don’t know this and I was one of those artists, and it’s easier for me to just be like - hey heads up, within a certain amount of characters on twitter - being like: hey do the grants properly, than to do a granting workshop because most people don’t hear things like that. It’s easier to share on twitter just little bits of information that you can stick in your mind.
G: And on the flipside, what’s the worst advice you’ve received in your career?
WP: [laughs].... The worst advice I received was to hold down my queerness and not to share that part. Which was one of the first things that was told to me when I ran the collective, 88 Days of Fortune. One of the guys in the collective was like.... [loudly exhales, imitating that person].. Cuz I was like: “oh my god I love Sun Sun I’m going to marry her.” And they’re like [takes the deep breath again] “it’s not a good look bro”, and I’m like, “what’s not a good look”, and they’re like: “this gay stuff is not a good look” and I’m like, “for who? Who’s it not a good look for”. You know? Ya that was the worst advice and I’m glad I never listened to it because they were wrong.
G: And you’re quite vocal about developing a more inclusive music industry. For example, you’ve mentioned on Twitter: “I have an idea: give Black artists and organizers the funding to support our community with events and services instead of giving the funding to other people to ‘hire us’ to do the exact same thing.” And obviously, that makes a lot of sense, and I’m sure thoughts like these have influenced your record label. What are some positive changes you’ve seen in the industry in the past few years (or months) and what are some other ways you think that the industry can evolve to be more inclusive?
WP: Um... I don’t know. I don’t think I’ve actually seen anything really happen, to be like wow, that’s such a great thing to change. Other than, I guess... ADVANCE - Canada’s Black Music Business Collective - they’ve started organizing everybody that is sort of in the industry and who is creating the industry and sort of doing workshops online and panels online, so that’s one of the things that I’ve seen. But in terms of actual change, no - we are still in the conversation part. I would like to see some actual change. I have seen a lot of other organizations be like, you know, “we want to give a platform, or amplify the voices of black artists” - but again, the reason why I tweeted that was because what I did see was... we got the funding to do this thing and here we are hiring black people to talk about it. And I was like... why did you get the funding for that, like you shouldn’t have gotten the funding for that. Like, in a way it’s great to do that and to have the voice and to have other people involved, but not when you take the power away from the people who are trying to reap the change. So it’s like the power is not in my hand if I’m a hired employee to talk about something whereas if I’m the boss to talk about something. There’s a major difference and that’s what we’re talking about is this power dynamic. And it’s constantly still like that, even when it’s like, hey we’re helping, and you are, but you’re not... You’re not, but you are... I don’t know what to say... I don’t want to seem like a hater because there are people who will get great advice and resources from this other event or this thing that’s happening, but it’s still not the right way to go about it...and I don’t know what’s the right way but I just know that that’s not the right way. Like turning the funding into actually giving it to people who they’re Board maybe isn’t just one person of colour. Like you know, actively looking for organizations or organizers where their mission statement is not just like - we want to help, but it is also reflected within their Board and within who has the power in that organization. And then of course, Heart Lake Records talking about trying to raise money so that we can help amplify and help with project funding and project management and mentorship and pretty much just give a lift up to two spirited, queer, trans, BIPOC, women, non-binary gender, non conforming artists who are making soul and rnb and hiphop music in Canada, and allies regardless of your gender identity, or race, or sexualitlity or anything like that - as long as you are making fantastic music we’re not going to say no to you. But the focus is within helping BIPOC artists because of the lack of support and the lack of infrastructure within the Canadian music industry. And when it comes to that genre of music (soul, hiphop, r&b) it’s like the support is so tiny, but then it’s even smaller once you start being like, not straight, cis, male, female. It’s like even a smaller percentage which is where we’re trying to tap into - and be like “hey we’re over here, don’t forget about us, can we have some funding so we can help these other artists.” Because it took us a long time to get to where I am right now, and it shouldn’t have taken me this long... I’ve never had a mentor, nobody has ever reached out to me to be like this is what you’re doing wrong, this is how I’ll help you, I’ll help you out for free, I just want to help you... nobody has ever, ever done that. It’s always just been me and Sun Sun working and literally making mistakes on my career or with ATS (Above Top Secret) and just learning as we go along, and then being like - oh that was a mistake, we won’t do that again. And so that’s why we want to be able to help other people so that they don’t repeat the same things that we did, when we had nobody to help us, that cost us years and time to figure it out. Which I wish I could take back but I can’t and so at least I’m grateful for learning and the ability to know that I can now help other people. And so hopefully the fundraiser for Heart Lake hits our goal - we hit almost 20% of our goal. I never even thought we’d even reach 5% so I’m very grateful. We’ve never had any funding or any money come through 88 Days or Heart Lake Records, it’s always been out of pocket for ten years...working within the music industry in Toronto and putting on shows and supporting people, funding for music videos or merchandise or things like that for other artists. It was always out of pocket. We only got funding once from the Toronto Arts Council, it was like $3000 and so that was like... we’ve literally have never had any sort of financial support so it was really amazing to see the community come together and help fund our goal to help Heart Lake Records because I think it’s time that we get some funding. And you know, it’s hard, because we’re not a not-for-profit organization - to apply for any sort of operating grant, we can’t do...because we’re a business. So you can’t get funding. Well I can’t be a not-for-profit because we’re trying to be a profitable business, this is not a charity. Music is a profitable business and we want to be able to tap into that industry. And I don’t want to always be a not-for-profit or be a charity in order to get help - which I don’t think is right. And so hopefully we’ll get some big time sponsor that will be like, “hey, this is chump change for us” [laughs]... and I’ll be like: “Great!”.
G: I feel like it’s coming. It’s an amazing idea and I love the mentorship concept behind it - it’s exactly what’s needed... It seems like artists are sometimes competitive instead of mentoring younger or newer artists - which isn’t right.
WP: It’s true, a lot of it is competition and trying to get one-up on the next person. But that’s not what community is about and that’s not what Heart Lake is about. I think that’s why we’re a weird label in the sense of we’re not the type that are like...we don’t want artists that aren’t on our roster to succeed if there’s an opportunity that we know that they would be great for... like we’re not gonna not send them a message or something like that.
G: In Saskatchewan, there is SaskMusic which is supportive in that way - Is there a similar Ontario organization - I guess Ontario is so big so I don’t know... like with SaskMusic, Saskatchewan has just over a million population and there are a lot some really good mentors through that organization but do you find that’s not as available in the Toronto scene or the Ontario scene for artists... or what is it like as an artist out in that area?
WP: I think that within urban music there are no mentors that are willing to work with people, unless you are in specific programs that are set up for, like, at-risk youth or something like that - like unless you’re in The Remix Project or within the Manifesto bubble or something like that, then more than likely you’re not going to find the mentorship that maybe an indie artist, or somebody not playing hip-hop or r&b might easily be able to find within those organizations. There are just not enough people that are knowledgeable in it within positions of support.
G: I’m going to move into some performance questions now - it’s kind of sad talking about it now that there aren’t currently as many performance opportunities... But if someone is to come to the ideal Witch Prophet show, what can they expect from your live show or what do you hope they get from your live show?
WP: Oh man, I had so many plans for touring... it’s different now because of covid. This album was supposed to have a live band travelling with me. It was supposed to have my backup singers, supposed to do projection mapping and more really cool visuals and lasers - more lights and projections... a lot more effects, you know like the fog on the floor and just more visually eerie and fuller than just me and Sun on the stage. But unfortunately cuz we can’t do all of that stuff... I was like - Fuck [laughs]... I have to make due with what we have. So lately it’s a more intimate performance where it’s just myself on vocals and loops and Sun with the beats. I’m doing a lot more freestyles in between the songs - just because I haven’t had the opportunity to perform all the songs that I feel like it’s easier for me to perform songs that I really know, like Musa, Makda and Tesfay and then freestyle other ones that are not exactly solid with me yet because I haven’t had the opportunity to be like, rehearsing with my band or things like that. It’s just been an unknown of like... are we performing? I don’t really know... so it’s a lot more freestyle, a lot more use of the pedal. Ya, but in terms of DNA Activation it’s also songs in Amharic and Tigrinya so a lot of maybe...unknown words [laughs] people will be like, what the hell are you singing? But most of the time, most of the things are repetitive so you’ve probably already heard it in English within the song but you don't know exactly what it is that I’m saying, but it probably already has been said within the song in English.
G: How do you feel about doing live streams? What’s your experience been with them so far? Do you enjoy doing them?
WP: Uhh I don’t really like doing them because the first couple ones I didn’t know how to set up my audio so I was just performing with a PA and recording it with a little mic that I plugged into my phone and then streaming through my phone. It was just like - ahh I hate this! And then I realized... I dunno, I think I did a live stream with Sofar Sounds and they had somebody on the tech side call me and talk to me, I think they troubleshooted for like two hours with me, trying to figure out the sound. They were like: “Oh do you have an audio interface? Oh go through the audio interface!” And I was like figuring it out and I was like holy shit, way better. Why was I doing it through the PA...like it was so stressful with the PA... like oh my god, now you can actually hear the beat and it was a lot better but it’s still not the same as performing in front of people. It’s not the same vibe. I don’t like it because it just doesn’t feel right. We did do one show for River & Sky Festival in... somewhere in Ontario, I can’t remember... in August. We drove out and they had a camping site and they filmed us live for their stream, so I did get to perform... I think there were about maybe seven or eight people there and it was so weird. I was incredibly nervous, I was like, why am I so nervous, there are like five people here like, what’s the big deal. But I was so nervous and then afterwards it was like: “man I love that”. I only sang one song and I sang it twice and they recorded it but I was like - I miss that so much and just having that immediate reaction from the people watching and you know, like being able to look people in their eyes when you’re performing and you know, even just scanning the room and connecting with somebody, you can really feel the energy. Umm ya it was such a different feel and I’m so grateful that I was able to do that and I miss that so, so much but I still do not feel comfortable about indoor concerts or anything like that. I’m not trying to do anything like that. I had to cancel one actually that was coming up in November because it was an indoor, ticketed event. And they were like, “you know, we’re only going to sell 25 tickets,” but I was like...the venue space maybe fits 50 people... I just was like.. I just feel.. I don’t think it’s right. It’s not worth it for me, it’s not worth it. I don’t want to do that. Being outdoors is a completely different thing but ya, indoors I’m not ready yet - for a ticketed indoor event. If it’s a streamed event where I’m inside and there’s people filming, that’s kind of different but I don’t want to do a live thing for people. I just feel weird about it.
G: Ya that’s fair. Do you have a pre-performance ritual you do?
WP: I smoke a lot of weed [laughs] Ayo I smoke weed... which is like the opposite of what people are like... don’t you drink tea? Or like... la la la la la [mimics vocal warmups]... I’m like, no. I smoke weed so that my legs don’t shake when I’m on stage because I have horrible stage fright and so it’s a lot easier for me to be like, I’m gonna smoke a spliff and then sing, than it is to be completely sober and get on stage and perform. I can still do that, but it is very scary. It’s scary to be like - here’s my talent...I hope you like it [laughs]... Don’t throw a bottle at my head - it’s just like, ahh it’s easier to smoke a spliff and be like, ah I’m relaxed and my anxiety is gone and I’m clear that I know that I want to do this and I love my music. And then the music comes on and I always blank out until the end. Even when I ramble and tell jokes and I tell a lot... I think I’m like a fake comedian. I tell a lot of jokes during my sets, like when there’s live people there - I can’t do it online. But like, you know, it’s like... even with the jokes and everything I blank out until the end and then it’s like, oh I’m done, okay.... And I’m like, “Is that good, did it sound okay?” And I constantly ask Sun Sun and she’s like: “weren’t you there?” And it’s like... I was, I guess I don’t know, hold on... I wish we had a video recorder, like somebody, I have no idea what any of these performances are like once they’re done [laughs].
G: I was going to ask you, what’s one of your most memorable shows but maybe you don’t remember [laughs], but do you have any that really stand out to you?
WP: Ya, I think the most memorable show is when we played the Montreal Jazz Festival. That was the most memorable show, I loved the sound - it was fucking fantastic. We had a headlining slot, it was like, great sound. I had never been to Montreal Jazz Festival before, they are so incredibly organized. It was the first time we had been booked for a festival and they treated us like celebrities. They came and picked us up and drove us around in a golf cart. And then the back of the stage had a fridge - I don’t drink, none of us drink alcohol, but it was full of alcohol. And we’re just like, wow... they’re like: “do you want food? what do you want? anything you need?” And we’re like wow, this is so nice. And the sound was fantastic! I wish I could have this sound every festival and every event that I went to because it’s not always the same, I wish it was always the same but it’s not. So that was probably the most memorable. And then also of course when we played the AGO - The Art Gallery of Ontario’s First Thursdays. We curated a show where it was myself, Lido Pimienta, and our friend LATASHÁ from New York. It was a 88 Days event, which is now Heart Lake Records, but it was called 88 Days of Fortune - that was our collective name before and then we rebranded to Heart Lake Records. So 88 Days of Fortune has been around for about ten years, Heart Lake Records has been around for about a year or two after the rebrand or whatever... But our shows or events that we used to do were always under 88 Days of Fortune and that was probably one of the best, or most memorable performances was having that, and being able to curate it and being paid really well, being treated really well and then having the ability to be trusted to book the artists that we wanted to book and to showcase them. And then of course, obviously Lido got booked afterwards, after she got booked for that because they were like: “oh my god.” and they booked her again. I was like, “I told ya, didn’t I tell ya?” So ya, it was great.
G: Do you have a favourite song to perform and why?
WP: Ya I like performing Time Traveller from The Golden Octave just because it’s a very witchy song. I like tripping people out and pointing at them when I say I put a spell on you - it really scares people. I really love looking people in their eyes and saying: “I’m a time traveller, I put a spell on you”. It’s really interesting to see who stares back and who is watching me stare at each person and then as soon as I get to them they look away. It’s very interesting to see the energy and the nervousness that are in people’s faces because they believe it when I say: I put a spell on you. So I like doing that because I just like seeing - it’s my own little thing that I do and get pleasure out of. And then I also love singing Musa from DNA Activation because it’s the first time I’ve written a song in Tigrinya - which is a language that I am definitely not fluent in.. at all. But I felt comfortable in the hook and it makes me feel strong when I sing it.
G: Do you have a song that you avoid performing live?
WP: Ya I always avoid singing Weight of the World from The Golden Octave. I just.. Sun Sun is always like, “Weight of the World, sing that one”, and I’m just like: “I don’t wanna sing it!” [laughs]. I don’t know why... I think it’s because I wrote it, I recorded it and then I was just like, I’m good with this... I don’t think I’ve ever practiced it to perform. So like, writing a song and recording it is completely different - like I’m sure you know - than like getting on stage and performing it. You have to practice it a different way and it really has to be in your body. You really need to feel comfortable with the song to sing it in a way that other people will be able to take it in - and I just don’t feel that connection with that song. It is a very strong and powerful song, but I’m just like - no! Like everytime my body is just like no, I just don’t wanna sing that. But that’s literally the number one song that she’s always like, “sing that song” ...she loves it so much... and a lot of people love it but I just don’t want to.
G: Do you have any dream collaborators? So if anyone is reading this maybe now or a few years down the road... it could be artists, producers, mixers, actors for videos - anyone that you’d want to work with.
WP: Umm... I would love to work with Tracy Chapman - she’s not going to read this, she hates the internet [laughs] She hates social media and she’s so anti-everything like that, I love her so much... but ya Tracy Chapman... oh my god, Paul Simon, I’d love to work with Paul Simon, that would be so cool. But I guess contemporary artists... I’d love to work with..um well I’ve already worked with Lido [Pimienta] but it would be cool to work with Lido again. I’d love to work with Zaki Ibrahim - I’ve always loved her music, she’s a fantastic musician. Um... I’m always like: “I wanna work with Stas Thee Boss” But I’ve already worked with her so many times, I just love her so much, she’s such a fantastic rapper. It would be cool to maybe do another track with Stas, just cuz I’ve always been a fan of hers and ya, I just love her flow so much. She’s a dream to collab with and she’s so talented - she’s like: “I wrote this song and recorded it in a half hour” and I’m like: “You’re crazy” [laughs] I love it. I guess ya... I dunno... Oh, 9th Wonder. Oh my god, if he like... 9th Wonder is an amazing producer, if he was ever to be like, I’ll work with you - I would drop everything and work with him. Exile is a fantastic producer, I would work with him in a heartbeat. Mary J Blige, but that’s only because... and Lauryn Hill and Erykah Badu... ya those three people, oh ya I’d work with them in a heartbeat.
G: If you work with Lauryn Hill, you gotta let me know, I wanna sneak in there! [laughs]
WP: [laughs] Ya I will!
G: Have you ever seen her live, Lauryn Hill?
WP: Ya I saw her live once at OVO Festival - it was really good... I guess Drake is probably a dream collab too. It would be cool to do a track with Drake, but I mean like, not like in a way where he steals my song and gets popular off of my song and I don’t go anywhere [laughs]. Not that kind of collab... A collab where it is on an even playing field where we both are projected at the same time.
G: Do you have some influences you want to talk about? So maybe ones that you feel are more obvious in your work - like musicians... or it could be writers, poets, or anything else that really influences your art?
WP: I get influenced by my daily life, by my family. Sun Sun is a major influence of mine. Umm.. ya I mean Lauryn Hill, Jill Scott, Erykah Badu.. I’m really influenced by the style of contemporary artists like Mereba, and Ari Lennox - but that’s more on like visuals and ya, but I think that’s what really inspires me. It’s really just tapping into myself and my family and what’s around me. Unless I’m talking about Above Top Secret music - that is incredibly inspired by world events and politics.
G: Who are some of your favourite Canadian artists at the moment?
WP: I love Junia-T, he is a homie from a long long long time ago. He is a fantastic artist. Backxwash, obviously - she is fantastic. Yasmine, she is a rapper on Heart Lake Records, she is such a fantastic artist. Hmm... who else... Beverly Glenn-Copeland - fantastic. SATE is fantastic, The OBGMs.. Hmm, I mean like obviously Drake, Jessie Reyez. I really like K!mmortal from Vancouver, they’re a great rapper. Goldie London from Toronto, she’s a really great rapper. I like paying attention to female rap within Canada and gender non-binary rapping - I like paying attention to the change of the guard in terms of who is making music and who is making hip-hop in Canada and a lot of it is women and non-binary people, so it’s really exciting to see.
G: Are you familiar with Eekwol & T-Rhyme from Saskatchewan? They put out a really dope collaborative album last year called For Women, By Women. Two Indigenous rappers from Saskatchewan, they are awesome. Eekwol jumped on one of our tracks for our last album too. I think you’d dig their stuff, it’s cool.
WP: Dope, thanks I’m going to check that out.
G: Alright so to close we can move into that word association game - so I’ll throw out a category and you think of whatever first comes to your mind for Witch Prophet.
G: Animal?
WP: Elephant
G: Food?
WP: Chocolate
G: Season?
WP: Fall
G: Colour?
WP: Blue
G: Beverage?
WP: Water
G: Piercing?
WP: Ears
G: Flower or plant?
WP: Marijuana, baby!
G: Survival Tool?
WP: Oh...Knife
G: Crystal?
WP: Obsidian
G: Mode of Transportation?
WP: Electric scooter [laughs]
G: And the last question is: Cup cake or Regular Cake?
WP: Oh..no no, cup cakes. [laughs]
G: Good answer [laughs] That’s all I have for questions, that was amazing. Thank you so much for doing this interview. It was so nice to get to know you more and talk with you.
WP: No problem, ya you too!
G: Take care, and hi to Sun Sun in the background there [laughs]
WP: [laughs] He (Greg) said hi... She says hi!